There is also a rarely seen PZ0. from a few people in Europe that they use Pozidriv there as well on Is it really worth it to get and use Pozidriv bits or screwdrivers? Do I need a cross-thread or something? Usually, it also involves a mating tool, such as a screwdriver, that is used to turn it.The following heads are categorized based on frequency, with some of the less-common drives being classified as "tamper-resistant". I made the most use of the screw bits, as Ikea does use some unusual screw bits, such as Robertson and Pozidriv. The Pozidriv screwdriver was invented to solve the camming-out problem. screwdrivers around. If doing Ikea stuff get Pozi bits or a screwdriver. Pozidriv screwdrivers come in three main sizes, usually named PZ3, PZ2 and PZ1 from largest to smallest. A screw is defined by the presence of a drive manufactured into its head. Grainger's got your back. Pozidriv (often spelt Pozidrive, Posidrive or Pozi-drive) is a type of screw head and drill bit, that is actually supposed to be an improvement over the standard Phillips screw head. r/IKEA: A subreddit dedicated to the Swedish furniture store started by Ingvar Kamprad in a small town called Almhult that now spans the globe. their cabinets. I can't remember. £11.38. Being a European company, IKEA goes with the superior metric. Phillips and Pozi drives are two of the most widely-used drive types in the world - their names may be different, but they share many similarities, and both designs were originally created by the Phillips Screw Company. bit, and not a short stubby one. Look at assembly drawings VERY carefully. Shaft Tackle tough jobs with this Channellock 3/8 Tackle tough jobs with this Channellock 3/8 in. Floor protectors with rivet It's not perfect, but it was a lot better I found out from other sources that the Ikea products use the Pozidriv screws, even though they look like a normal Phillips head. This is where the screwdriver tends to slip out of the target screw head each time you apply more torque. I purchased these bits because I kept stripping out the heads of all Philips head screws in some IKEA furniture I was putting together. My local hardware stores don’t carry them, but they’re easy enough to find online. At the time of writing, Mid February 2019, I’m just about finished (Or PH1, PH2, and PH3.) For the typical IKEA shelf with pre-drilled components, however, it is sufficient. It includes a bit for every size IKEA uses. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. At a minimum, it is a set of shaped cavities and protrusions on the screw head that allows torque to be applied to it. When a Phillips Is Not a Phillips! Pozidriv screwdrivers/bits don’t work very well at all on Phillips (non-Pozidriv) fasteners. All Tools Tools … Please comment below. I manage but wife had issues with Phillips slipping, she was struggling, just needs a bit of finesse. The screwdrivers are packaged in a tray that can easily be stored in your tool chest for storage. A perfect addition to your toolbox or garden shed, this tool is designed for a … Spax is a manufacturer, they make many types. The Pozidriv also has a self-centering design, but the shape is modified for improved engagement between bit and fastener, and increased torque without the cam-out of a Phillips. Thanks for stopping by, please consider supporting my work! BUT, it annoys me to a great extent that the hinge manufacturer imbedded this custom screw into their design that required a custom screwdriver to turn the screw. Still are, most screws in Ikea products are Pozidrv. The fasteners will have the four lines radiating out from the center as seen here. you should probably buy yourself a pozidriv screwdriver and associated Pozidriv, commonly spelled incorrectly as “Pozidrive”, is an improved variation on the Phillips drive design. bit and an actual pozdriv screwdriver from Amazon. Usually not more than an Allen key - which is provided in the kit of parts. Your email address will not be published. 1 Pozidriv (PZ2) It is important to specify the torque of 5 Nm. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. I found out from other sources that the Ikea products use the Pozidriv screws, even though they look like a normal Phillips head. The bit really locks into That's a Pozidriv head that might have been chewed up a little by the inappropriate use of a Phillips screwdriver. 5 of 5 people found the following review helpful 3 of 5 the screwdriver worked June 30th, 2016 by Steven from Longmont, CO. 2 can all refer to the same size of drive. Required fields are marked *. the screw, and holds very well. In Stock. I’d give them a try. 99 (31) FIXA. When I recently learned about Pozidriv, I checked out the Ikea screws and, sure enough, they are Pozidriv. This tip is 89mm long, which is has some really tight spaces that you need to fit the bit into. fasteners that came with my cabinets, as well as a tight closup, Acetate Handle Slotted Screwdriver with 12 in. Posted by Adam Reichert on Dec 29th 2018 closely you can see the extra teeth (for lack of a better word) that All Tools Tools by … The screwdriver worked as intended. BUT, it annoys me to a great extent that the hinge manufacturer imbedded this custom screw into their design that required a custom screwdriver … But once you get the electric screwdriver dialed in and are using Pozidriv bits and hardware, it’s really sweet! The Pozidriv screwdriver was invented to solve the camming-out problem. Speed Zone in. screwdriver and driver-bit to assemble the cabinets. Looking for APEX #2, Pozidriv(R), Insert Bit, 1/4 in Hex Shank Size (6CYT9)? Unless you are a professional carpenter, you likely won't have a Pozidriv screwdriver in your home toolbox. Exceptions: Machinsts can use hex head/Allen, and Canadian construction workers can use Robertson. So you need to use the proper drill/driver with the clutch set properly or know how much torque you should put on a screwdriver or you will be stripping out fasteners right and left! It's also used on a lot of Ikea stuff. After the patent for the Phillips head expired, the company GKN Screws and Fasteners created the Pozidriv design. I was mostly just Use a POZIDRIV screwdriver tip. The tool kit isn’t necessary, especially if you have a decent collection of hand tools. When I recently learned about Pozidriv, I checked out the Ikea screws and, sure enough, they are Pozidriv. 4. Occasionally though the screwdriver will not turn the screw. For instance, the terms pozidrive PZ2, Pozidriv #2, or posidrive no. 200-piece wood screw set $ 4. So I ordered a set of bits. If you are a “the right tool for the right job” kind of person, you’ll really appreciate the switch. POZIDRIV® Power Bit #1: 2" 93077: POZIDRIV® Power Bit #2: 2" 93079: POZIDRIV® Power Bit #3: 2" Related IRWIN tools This tool has no related items. recommending them. The bits and screwdrivers are marked PZ1, PZ2, and PZ3, denoting the three different sizes, just as Phillips bits are marked P1, P2, and P3. 5 of 5 people found the following review helpful 3 of 5 the screwdriver worked June 30th, 2016 by Steven from Longmont, CO. Your email address will not be published. bit. In short, Pozidriv is the trade name of a very slightly different type of fastener and tool. Just search for Pozidriv bit sets. That doesn’t take much, and even with the Mijia screwdriver you can’t really tighten all screws. This is a great quality product and will be in your tool box forever. Because when you use a Pozidriv bit or screwdriver in a Pozidriv fastener, they work far better! Testimonials There are no testimonials at this time. than using a regular philips screwdriver. The fasteners are held more securely while inserting, and the bits almost never cam out. These worked great for putting together Ikea products, no slipping, or stripping of the screws, which is a common problem. 21 x SabreCut SCPA25_21 25mm PZ2 Impact Screwdriver Driver Bits Set Single Ended PoziDriv POZI No.2 Heavy Duty Including Bit Holder and Storage Box 4.5 out of 5 stars 1,386 £7.49 £ 7 . happen. (cammed out) during use. Professional Flat-Pack Furniture Assembly Toolkit: Large Tools, Professional Flat-Pack Furniture Assembly Toolkit: Introduction, Professional Ikea Furniture Assemblers Must Have: Pozidriv Bit Set, Lime Hunting: It’s Just Not Worth It – GOHTS.COM, 9 Lime Juicing Problems That Could Be Fixed. Shaft. Ikea sells a tool kit that includes a hammer, screwdriver, a selection of bits, lineman’s pliers, and a wrench. That’s all you need. It’s a little known fact that many of the screws IKEA uses are actually intended to be used with Pozidriv bits instead of the ubiquitous Phillips head screwdriver. Bought this Pozidriv screwdriver while assembling IKEA furniture and it is precisely the tool you need to put those Phillips looking screws. Spax is a manufacturer, they make many types. If they are tight, I try using a regular Phillips head screwdriver with the size (#1, #2, or #3) to match the screw. But IKEA does now sell a simple electric screwdriver that actually does have pozidriv … The Pozidriv drive style was originally formed to address the largest issue Phillips heads are prone to: cam-out. IRWIN Tools IRWIN Brands IRWIN Support. The screwdriver worked as intended. I have the standard 'flat' ones, and also Philips', but they're not right, and I don't want to wreck the screws. It’s not exactly going to be a super strong magnetic tip, but it --70.108.246.224 20:35, 2 August 2011 (UTC) None of them are called Spax. Everyone else, stop farking around and use Torx. This is a great quality product and will be in your tool box forever. And the reason is that all (?) Shaft Tackle tough jobs with this Channellock 3/8 Tackle tough jobs with this Channellock 3/8 in. Wera 006165 Kraftform 165 VDE Insulated Screwdriver Pozidriv Tip 2-Point 4.8 out of 5 stars 371. This is where the screwdriver tends to slip out of the target screw head each time you apply more torque. Some find the Pozidriv screwdriver as an improved version of the Philips screwdriver. Pozi-Drive Quick-Change Bit (Set of 3) #3 x 2-3/4" 4.5 out of 5 stars 17. Another tip to make life easier is to make sure you magnetize the Pozidriv is still used on things like furniture hinges and wood screws. curious to see if it would make a noticeable difference, so I thought The Pozidriv style can be found in two forms. The Apex PZ.1 Posidriv Screwdriver Bit 1/4" Hex Drive, 1-15/16" OAL can be found within the Power & Impact Screwdriver Bits & Holders category. screwdriver, and on the left is an 89mm Wera driver bit (in one of my Iam so glad i … Pozidriv is still used on things like furniture hinges and wood screws. Unlike Phillips head screwdrivers, which were designed to cam out under high torque, Pozidriv® screwdrivers are designed to hold fast, allowing greater torque to be applied. I have the standard 'flat' ones, and also Philips', but they're not right, and I don't want to wreck the screws. This screw rotates an eccentric cam so is a bit stiff. I then took a break before starting on the other half of the On the right is a Wera PZ2 I was looking at this page to see if I could lessen my frustration assembling IKEA furniture by using a better screwdriver and I saw that they use Pozidriv; it would be helpful for my quest to be able to learn more here. All 12 screwdrivers are built for durability and safe, easy use, with black oxide non-slip tips, innovative, dual-material handles for comfort and a special in. But really, the right answer everywhere is stop farking around and use Torx. Pozidriv; Torx; Hex (or Allen key or Allen wrench) * (Ikea loves this one) Robertson (Canada’s most common) Tri-Wing; Torq-Set; Spanner; Note: Many retractable screwdrivers and screwdriver sets do not come with the Hex or Allen key bit so you should always keep a Hex Key (or Allen wrench) in your pocket for pesky Ikea furniture. I’ve been putting together Ikea (and other manufacturers’) flat pack kit items for a long time, but I just recently learned about Pozidriv. Increased Torque Capacity One of the primary optimisations of the Pozi drive was in its improved ability to be used in self-tapping applications, which require significantly increased torque to drive the screw into an unprepared hole. I built the As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases you make using my affiliate links. Both the tool and the fasteners look very similar to regular Phillips drive, but if you know what to look for, they are easy to tell apart. A screw drive is a system used to turn a screw. first half of this kitchen just using a regular philips drive Pozidriv two normally works unless really chewed up. Diffusion barrier $ 10. And the reason is that all(?) measures, Picquic — some of the best “multi-bit” Did you know that none of the screws used by IKEA are Phillips head? Well, I’ve run across Pozidriv while assembling more than just Ikea products so it’s pretty wide-spread. 99 / 200 pack (20) FIXA. Sure a Robertson would be better, but I know that’s not going to Last time I put together shelves from IKEA, a neighbour, since gone, lent me a screwdriver as, though I had dozens, I hadn't got what I needed. Pozidrive or Pozidriv screws are commonly found on €uropean designed goods and tools. The generic term used to be "Phillips", until the 1960's, but now if you want to assemble, say, a basic Ikea table, you may find they supply Pozidriv screws, and you will have to select a Pozidriv screwdriver, especially if the screws are hard to screw in and you need all the grip you can get. For this build you will need the following: ... KALLAX set of castors 002.886.57 Flat blade screwdriver Phillips/PoziDriv no. entry on Pozidriv) These next two photos show an assortment of It takes like will be enough to pick up a screw and help keep it in place when I like that they hold very tight, like a hex fastener, but the tool doesn’t get stuck in the fastener as hex bits do when the tightening is completed. I have never seen a Pozidriv screw on any manufactured product other than Ikea furniture in the US. During that break, I ordered for myself an actual Pozidriv ANSI standards refer to Pozidriv as a “Type IA”. Acetate Handle Slotted Screwdriver with 12 in. That's also why the hinge bolts are such a pain to remove. 1 Pozidriv (PZ2) It is important to specify the torque of 5 Nm. Do I need a cross-thread or something? 2 screwdriver 4 of 8 x 30mm pan head bolts Jigsaw with fine cut blade (I actually used one that is for … Features dual material handle for comfort and performance with Tri-Lobe ergonomic handle to obtain optimal balance of strength and comfort. : Cross-head, Cross-Point, Cruciform, Square Drive Screws and Drivers These screw types have a "+" shaped recess on the head and are driven by a cross-head screwdriver, designed originally for use with mass-production mechanical screwing machines. 5 Purchased for Ikea. The difference is quite noticeable. User account menu. People think that the fasteners are really crap but they are using Phillips screwdrivers on Pozi screws. If you watch the accompanying youtube video at the top of the article 5. There are several important differences between the two drive types: 99 (33) FIXA. PZ3 or PSD5). Bought this Pozidriv screwdriver while assembling IKEA furniture and it is precisely the tool you need to put those Phillips looking screws. They are more expensive than Philips bits but I suspect they will last far longer because they don’t have the extra wear and tear of camming out frequently. with all the cabinets in our custom ikea kitchen. 3. You can use a Phillips, but the fit is “class B”. Here it is: If you’re going to build an Ikea kitchen, you should probably buy yourself a pozidriv screwdriver and associated driver bits. Iam so glad i found out before trying to put together 15 storage boxes. I manage but wife had issues with Phillips slipping, she was struggling, just needs a bit of finesse. Grainger's got your back. Ikea sells a tool kit that includes a hammer, screwdriver, a selection of bits, lineman’s pliers, and a wrench. When I recently learned about Pozidriv, I checked out the Ikea screws and, sure enough, they are Pozidriv. Testimonials There are no testimonials at this time. Laser level $ 14. Unlike Phillips head screwdrivers, which were designed to cam out under high torque, Pozidriv® screwdrivers are designed to hold fast, allowing greater torque to be applied. It often leads to injuries or scratching of the surface. For the typical IKEA shelf with pre-drilled components, however, it … They are almost always very accurate and answer most questions. They require a really fat Pozidriv driver that no one has. 2. about 3-1/2”. So, get this one—it's cheap and it works great. Just search for Pozidriv bit sets. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! As usual, click any photo to bring up a larger version. The most common is PZ2. However, Pozidrive is, as far as I know, much more I experienced very little "cam-out". It mostly looks like a philips bit, but when you look you’re using it. I can't remember. I found out from other sources that the Ikea products use the Pozidriv screws, even though they look like a normal Phillips head. Pozidriv screwdrivers/bits don’t work very well at all on Phillips (non-Pozidriv) fasteners. For instance, IKEA’s turn-lock fasteners, which are integral to many pieces, only require a half-turn to use. You'll feel the difference instantly, the Pozidriv® tip sits firmly in the screw head, and digs in with very little downward pressure. The 12-Piece Mini and Torx Screwdriver Set The 12-Piece Mini and Torx Screwdriver Set provide versatility in one convenient package. You can't get them at Home Depot, or any place else other than a specialty woodworking store. Utoolmart 1/4-Inch Hex Shank Magnetic PZ1/PZ2/PZ3 Pozidriv Screwdriver Bit 50mm Length S2 Screwdriver Bits 3pcs CDN$17.51. Posted by Adam Reichert on Dec 29th 2018 You want the longer bit, because the drawer hardware So far, I have only used the PZ2 and PZ3 sizes. Armed with a Pozidriv #2 screwdriver and metric hex keys, you’ll have the right tools to take on IKEA and beyond. Acetate Handle Slotted Screwdriver with 12 in. You can, and many do, use standard Philips screwdrivers/bits on Pozidriv screws and they work ok, but they cam out pretty easily and don’t hold very securely when inserting. Dedicated Pozidriv sizes for use in European imports. sure that they're the same across North America. The Apex PZ.1 Posidriv Screwdriver Bit 1/4" Hex Drive, 1-15/16" OAL can be found within the Power & Impact Screwdriver Bits & Holders category. : Multi-colour Verified Purchase: There are some screws too delicate for a power tool August (... To put together 15 storage boxes starting on the other half of our kitchen wasn’t. And are using Phillips screwdrivers on Pozi screws designed pozidriv screwdriver ikea and tools confused, I! The tool kit isn ’ t really tighten all screws not the same size of.. Necessary, especially if you put together 15 storage boxes and it is precisely tool. Size of drive pozidrive or Pozidriv screws are more likely to strip and require more force to in! In the United States on 10 June 2018 of person, you can one! And positive feel I get pozidriv screwdriver ikea using them and holds very well of feed ( pressure ) the. Offering, this item can be found using MSC part number 76983139 the cabinets in our custom Ikea cabinets! You apply more torque that I bought feed ( pressure ) holding the drawer firmly about too! Base of the kitchen I made the most use of the philips screwdriver wood! Be in your tool box forever 's also why the hinge bolts such! Toolkit does n't even include the proper style of screwdriver this, the company GKN screws,... The size number ( e.g the second half of the handle, which allows for faster turning in back! Mine wasn’t, but they ’ re easy enough to find online one—it 's cheap and it is important specify... A break before starting on the other half of our kitchen tool box forever as... & more or any place else other than a specialty woodworking store can find one that is already magnetized screwdriver. A magnet and then it will be in your tool box forever Machinsts can use Hex head/Allen, so... No one has PZ or PSD are usually listed before the size number ( e.g during that break I! Style can be found using MSC part number 76983139 just using a regular philips drive screwdriver driver-bit! The project in two halves the keyboard shortcuts about 3-1/2” rest of pozidriv screwdriver ikea,! Did you know that None of them are called Spax you magnetize the really... 15-20 seconds to just take the tip and a lot of Ikea.. Pz2 and PZ3 sizes make using my affiliate links stop farking around and Torx. Built the first half of this kitchen just using a Phillips, but they re. Pozidrive screwdriver with magnetic tip, chrome finish, and the bits almost cam. Ikea does use some unusual screw bits, such as Robertson and Pozidriv been chewed up a larger.. Is precisely the tool you need it: There are some screws delicate... The time of writing, Mid February 2019, I’m just about with. Of MSC Industrial Supply 's power tools offering, this item can be found in two halves worked out you. Thing to keep in mind is that you definitely want a long bit. You do try out Pozidriv, I then used that bit and screwdriver while assembling than! And answer most questions terms pozidrive PZ2, Pozidriv is still used on lot... For comparison: the popular and similarly expensive Bosch IXO comes to 4.5 Nm PSD are usually before... Stripping of the kitchen from 0-5 just curious to see if it would a... Worked out for you sizes, usually named PZ3, PZ2 and sizes! Defined by the presence of a drive manufactured into its head, most screws in some Ikea and... Pz1 from largest to smallest a Robertson/square-drive cam out in certain situations to address the largest Phillips... No one has head that might have been chewed up a little by the inappropriate use of drive! Comfort and performance with Tri-Lobe ergonomic handle to obtain optimal balance of and. Do try out Pozidriv, I ’ ve run across Pozidriv while assembling all the cabinets while... Slip out of 5 stars 117 a pain to remove # 3 x 2-3/4 '' 4.5 out the. The kitchen hardware in the US break, I checked out the heads of all philips head screws some... A screw is Pozidriv is the four tick marks or indentations around the cross come... The US in some Ikea furniture I was mostly just curious to if! Following:... KALLAX Set of castors 002.886.57 Flat blade screwdriver Phillips/PoziDriv no else other than a specialty store! With magnetic tip, chrome finish, and PH3. else other than a specialty woodworking store different. When you use a Phillips, but it was a lot of Ikea.! Features Dual Material handle for comfort and performance with Tri-Lobe ergonomic handle to obtain optimal balance of strength and.. Not sent - check your email addresses I then used that bit and screwdriver while Ikea! ( e.g is about 3-1/2” Pozidriv screw on any manufactured product other than a specialty woodworking store delicate a... Doing Ikea stuff similarly expensive Bosch IXO comes to 4.5 Nm a bit of finesse when I learned. Of writing, Mid February 2019, I’m just about finished with all the.! You have a decent collection of hand tools also have heard from a people. Robertson and Pozidriv built the first half of the screw, and holds very well at all Phillips... Thought I’d give them a try hand tools storage boxes pozidriv screwdriver ikea fortunate, you need to put together storage... For instance, Ikea ’ s pretty wide-spread 5 stars 17 pre-drilled components, however, it is the... Times over a magnet and then it will be magnetized screw, and not a short stubby one or in., 1/4 in Hex Shank magnetic PZ1/PZ2/PZ3 Pozidriv screwdriver was invented to solve the camming-out problem comes to Nm. Patent for the second half of this kitchen just using a regular philips drive screwdriver and driver-bit to assemble cabinets... And the bits almost never cam out in certain situations get Pozi bits or screwdriver!, you ’ ll really appreciate the switch why your screwdriver probably has a difficult time with applications... Half-Turn to use that break, I ’ ve run across Pozidriv while assembling than! Have been chewed up a larger version this kitchen just using a regular philips screwdriver or even a hobby. Regular philips drive screwdriver and driver-bit to assemble the cabinets the center as seen Here company, Ikea ’ really... For you use Torx it 's also why the hinge bolts are such pain! To remove Quick-Change bit ( Set of 3 ) # 3 x 2-3/4 '' 4.5 out of the screwdriver. Improved version of the screws and fasteners created the Pozidriv screwdriver bit the two that bought! Heard from a few people in Europe that they use Pozidriv There as well on their.!, as Ikea does use some unusual screw bits, such as Robertson and Pozidriv it often to! Tool you need to know about them too force to screw in when using a regular philips drive screwdriver driver-bit! For faster turning in low back torque applications other sources that the Ikea products the. Just curious to see if it would make a noticeable difference, so I tackled the project in halves... To slip out of 5 Nm following:... KALLAX Set of 3 ) # 3 x 2-3/4 '' out. Almost always very accurate and answer most questions Ikea part numbers refer to Pozidriv as a screw. Set of castors 002.886.57 Flat blade screwdriver Phillips/PoziDriv no are really crap but … are. So glad I found out from other sources that the fasteners are crap. Perfect, but they are Pozidriv forearms and shoulders, speeds up,. Pressure ) holding the drawer firmly not sent - check your email!... Version of the target screw head each time you apply more torque this Channellock 3/8 Tackle tough with. Size of drive it: There are some screws too delicate for a power tool system to! You will need the following:... KALLAX Set of 3 ) # 3 x 2-3/4 4.5!, speeds up assembly, and holds very well great for putting together Ikea products use the design! Than a specialty woodworking store Depot, or stripping of the screws, even though pozidriv screwdriver ikea... Take much, and even with the superior metric of screwdriver faster in! Does use some unusual screw bits, such as Robertson and Pozidriv into. Longer bit, 1/4 in Hex Shank size ( 6CYT9 ) to do trying to together!, however, it ’ s pretty wide-spread will take a lot easier to get and Torx! Numbers refer to the black/brown wood effect to match my TV/Entertainment unit pozidriv screwdriver ikea $ 17.51 locks... Box forever standards refer to Pozidriv as a “ type IA ” click any photo to bring up little. Or a screwdriver require more force to screw in when using a regular philips drive screwdriver driver-bit... The black/brown wood effect to match my TV/Entertainment unit life easier is to make sure magnetize! Ikea stuff and a lot of feed ( pressure ) holding the firmly. And will pozidriv screwdriver ikea in your tool box forever of 5 stars 371 Pozidriv as... -- 70.108.246.224 20:35, 2 August 2011 ( UTC ) None of the surface more torque construction can... Has a difficult time with high-torque applications screwdriver bits 3pcs CDN $ 17.51 comparison: the and. You want the longer bit, 1/4 in Hex Shank magnetic PZ1/PZ2/PZ3 Pozidriv screwdriver as an improved version the! N'T even include the proper style of screwdriver use Pozidriv bits and hardware, it pozidriv screwdriver ikea make. Bit, and holds very well castors 002.886.57 Flat blade screwdriver Phillips/PoziDriv no ones who get it done with! Of 3 ) # 3 x 2-3/4 '' 4.5 out of 5 17...